Curse

KANE OG · Jul 14, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

[/QUOTE=Kakumei]When you can do eight Mesmers vs. the City of Torc'qua and win, you know there's not much build dependence at all./QUOTE]

All of your previous posts in this thread are moot. It all ended when you implied that you could find 8 Mesmers to do ANYTHING!

The OP, of course is right IMO. anet caters to the cookie cutter builds. That's a fact. The devs/testers can't seem to come up with a plan for an intelligent AI, so they just beef them up with enormous damage, insane health, more speed and throw in area effects to screw with your entire party. THEN they played it through to make sure it's playable, and threw us the bone.

Sure it's playable.... with a freakin specific team build that has no place for Me's, Derv's, Assassins, Paragons, Rits, etc.

That takes out all the fun if you're palying one of those classes. I'm not referring to those with sucky builds either, so don't even go there. I'm talking about people with their OWN builds that know how to play them and adjust for the mission/quest with a change here or there. I do it all the time, and if the group leader tells me to run a specific build he/she read on wiki while I'm pugging, I tell him/her to kiss my ass.

Good Job with the thread Pro-Monk. We need more just like them to shake things up some more.

KANE

HawkofStorms · Jul 14, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

The game is no longer fun for some people not because the game has gotten worse, but because those people got bored with it because they've played for so much. It happens with everything in life. Don't blame the game because you've lost interest in it.

InfernalSuffering · Jul 14, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I was hoping this thread would consist only of:

hexes on jade. lol.

Anyway....
you are basically complaining that the "fixes" ANet has made has messed up the game? Yeah...no.

Kali Ma · Jul 14, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I took a five month break from the game after completing Nightfall, for life reasons and simply because I was burned out. After recently returning, I find the game to be more enjoyable than it's been in awhile, and the player environment doesn't seem as serious as it used to be. In PvE it seems like I'm running into more players just having fun and playing a game, rather than forging a virtual career. Personally I like the new feel and direction.

shadows of hob · Jul 14, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I have to agree with the OP on a few points(loot scaling, crappy rewards, etc) but the AOE update was a good one.

Would you stay in AOE damage? No? Why should they.

It is just so sad that ALL the new classes ANET came up with, AREN'T wanted for elite area's or just normal gameplay. You have ever seen people asking for a Paragon/Ritualist/Assassin(exclude shadow form abuse) or Dervish? No? Me neither.

Willow O Whisper · Jul 14, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by drago34

First of all 2 is not the same as or even a substitute for to. Secondly, sux isn't even a word. Thirdly I'm getting tired of all the damn anti-loot scaling threads that keep popping up every other day and trying to get it through your thick heads so whatever.

Edit: Oh I almost forgot if you think the grind in guild wars is bad then you probably shouldn't even be playing games.

tss... Seams your the type of guy who don't know wtf grind is, let me explain it 2 u my not so understanding freind, (this little bit i have taken from a lovely little site called Wikipedia.org, 2( i will be substituting the word to with the number "2", trough the rest of this entire post

) explain 2 you what grinding is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

"Grinding is a pejorative term used in computer gaming 2 describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay (more often than not, battles in RPGs) in order 2 gain access 2 other features within the game. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs, in which it is often necessary for a character 2 repeatedly kill monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again, in order 2 advance their character level to be able to access newer content. Grinding can also appear in other games in which features can be unlocked.

(oh one more thing, i switched all the to's out in this post with "2")
So what you are telling me that, i shoulden't be playing games beacuse, all of them will with out a doubt be booring ? And that Guildwars needs 2 be booring? Guildwars haven't been a grinding game always you know, Grinding was first introduced as a requirement in pve factions, with the Kurzick and Luxon factions, before that part it was a posibility 2 play the game whitout a single bit of grinding. Right before loot-scaling getting cool stuff weren't a grinding hell, it was fun 2 farm at that time, getting the rush when a
sup vigor rune, or a perfect fellblade from fow dropped for you, and you were all excited, beacuse you knew that those items could net you a nice aoument of money, so that you could get the armor, or the weapon you always wanted. But sure you must be that kind of person, that enjoys a game where getting cool stuff means not having a fun time, or just a pvp'er who haven't experienced Guildwars from its pve part. Beacuse it doesen't seam like you are playing the same Game as the rest of us. And i will not repeat myself with the immortal words GRINDING SUX! (sucks with X -cks). oh... One more thing please tell me if i missed a "to" in the post. Have a nice day ~Whisper

zling · Jul 14, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadows of hob

I have to agree with the OP on a few points(loot scaling, crappy rewards, etc) but the AOE update was a good one.

Would you stay in AOE damage? No? Why should they.

It is just so sad that ALL the new classes ANET came up with, AREN'T wanted for elite area's or just normal gameplay. You have ever seen people asking for a Paragon/Ritualist/Assassin(exclude shadow form abuse) or Dervish? No? Me neither.

actually some people ask for dervishes as tanks or ritualists as splinter barragers but yeah, not much else...
it's sad that the usual party is
Warrior->Tank
Elementalist->Nuker
Necromancer->Spiteful Spirit
Monk->Healer
Monk->Bonder
works for most areas of the game, in the high end areas you add a few more nukers and perhaps another monk.

also, if you ran out of things to do try soloing the entire game in hard mode with non popular classes such as Mesmer. although it will be some variation of 55ing for the most part

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 14, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

i am a somewhat casual gw player, i play 1-3 times a week. i dont join player groups and only use heroes/henchies. (too much abusive insults with players)

speaking as a casual player i can say this game is designed for regular players. i have played for 16+ months now, and have had the hardest time of any game. making enough money for armor or supplies (keys) is very tought and takes alot of time, more than i have.

i choose to play a warrior (axe). my build is not from a site, it is just skills i like and find useful. i can not farm alone, i need heroes/henchies. and aside from flaggin during boss kills i get almost no drops. before i learned to flag i was doing Farming Run Sets of 100 on each boss. i would get 1-2 greens if i was lucky. my money farming is poor, i cap at about 4 plat an hour. (heroes and henchies take alot) normally i farm RoT, margonite drops are normally worth 50gold each at merchant. i also do not normally trade. i will not spam. and my messages get swallowed up lightning fast, no chance of being seen.

i cant play the elite missions at all due to my aversion to players. and because heroes and henchies are not permitted (wont go through the portal)

Titles are impossible for me to complete. requires more time and platinum than i will ever have. and as to the obsidian armor comment. there is no way a player like myself can get Obsidian armor, costs way to much and its almost impossible for me to get ecto's.

Capping skills in some areas is impossible for me. (mineral Springs) i also do not know how to "Pull" properly. i try and end up aggroing the entire mob.

Players in general do not want to take the time to explain things in a contructive and positive way. they just spam abuse and get others to kick me from groups. i have joined a few guilds, but i was nothing more than a slot filler to them. i would get no help nor any advice. all i ever hear is "go read wiki".

things i would like to change:
heroes and henchies take no drops. this would help me so much i cant even express it enough. i want to be able to make money and items without giving up my axe warrior and playing another char/build.

Hero Skill Priority: allowing players to mark which skills should be use in conjunction to others would help alot also. maybe differant colored markers with numbers. the hero will use colored combos together more often while the AI checks which skills have priority in a combination.

Full Party of Heroes for Elite Missions and Uw,Fow. so i can actually play them.

Maybe an Easy Mode? i know most players will laugh at this but it would help most of us Casual players alot. getting stuck at granite citadel for 2 months isnt fun.

*i'd like to end this on a good note. i love guildwars, i love the game. the events are wonderful and alot of fun, not much i dont like about the game except the need to play with others to gain the maximum benefits.

i plan on playing the game for many years, although i am stuck and have been stuck for some time now, so i do plan to move on to other games for a time. but i will always return to gw until i get tired of being stuck.

kradens · Jul 14, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

guild wars pve - is essentially about killing monsters.

when u kill a monster, u want to be rewarded for it. so generally, when a monster drops nothing, and 10 other monsters after him drop nothing. it doesnt feel like you've been rewarded for your efforts, therefore it feels like you've just wasted time because you've killed 10 monsters and theres no show for it.

drops / items / gold is what gives a point to the whole kill 1 000 000 monsters thing.

arcanemacabre · Jul 14, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

The argument I don't understand (perhaps someone can clear it up for me):

Player 1: "I have lost the only thing I can do in PvE endgame - farming! Now I'm bored and there's nothing else!"

Player 2: "OK, but you can still farm, you just get less than you did before."

Player 1: "Exactly! Now I gotta farm for 4 hours for what I used to get in 1 hour! It's just stupid!"

Player 2: "Wait a minute, weren't you just complaining about having nothing to do?"

drago34 · Jul 14, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

tss... Seams your the type of guy who don't know wtf grind is, let me explain it 2 u my not so understanding freind, (this little bit i have taken from a lovely little site called Wikipedia.org, 2( i will be substituting the word to with the number "2", trough the rest of this entire post

) explain 2 you what grinding is:

(oh one more thing, i switched all the to's out in this post with "2")
So what you are telling me that, i shoulden't be playing games beacuse, all of them will with out a doubt be booring ? And that Guildwars needs 2 be booring? Guildwars haven't been a grinding game always you know, Grinding was first introduced as a requirement in pve factions, with the Kurzick and Luxon factions, before that part it was a posibility 2 play the game whitout a single bit of grinding. Right before loot-scaling getting cool stuff weren't a grinding hell, it was fun 2 farm at that time, getting the rush when a
sup vigor rune, or a perfect fellblade from fow dropped for you, and you were all excited, beacuse you knew that those items could net you a nice aoument of money, so that you could get the armor, or the weapon you always wanted. But sure you must be that kind of person, that enjoys a game where getting cool stuff means not having a fun time, or just a pvp'er who haven't experienced Guildwars from its pve part. Beacuse it doesen't seam like you are playing the same Game as the rest of us. And i will not repeat myself with the immortal words GRINDING SUX! (sucks with X -cks). oh... One more thing please tell me if i missed a "to" in the post. Have a nice day ~Whisper

Wow your a tool. Your the one complaining that guild wars has too much grind. All I said was if you think that the grind in guild wars is bad then you shouldn't be playing games. Guild wars has less grind than a lot of games. By the way you can look as ignorant as you want with your posts, I really don't give a damn. I know that I wont take anything you say serious and a lot of others feel the same way.

Molock · Jul 14, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Abbott

Kakumei, way to take all of the OP's opinions and then mock them by stating YOUR opinions as fact... the OP simply stated the way he FEELS, I also feel this way as do many many others, I'd rather lootscaling disapeared alltogether as a cash rich enviroment with overpriced weapons to farm and save for after you've completed all the missions etc is ALOT more fun than this.. and for me its nothin.. I've done all missions and quests . have all the titles I want/can get, every char I wanted to complete the chapters has done so... so with out farming and a healthy cash system there is nothing for me to do.. and players like me are the ones who have stuck by the game through thick and thin,, and for what?

100% agree... I used to love farming but know it seems pointless. I am poorer than ever before, can't manage to sell rare items, farming has been nerfed to hell because Anet can't think of an intelligent way of eliminating bots...

Damn, I used to be able to make 75k/day easy vermin farming, I could make even more Gloom Farming... but now I just get bored... barely anything drops and its all pointless.

drago34 · Jul 14, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecklipze

Am I the only one who thought this was going to be a thread about [card]Price Of Failure[/card]?

:s

I figured it was probably going to be another one about some one bitching about something Anet did and saying Anet was a failure but hoped it would be about [card]Price Of Failure[/card].

Willow O Whisper · Jul 14, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The argument I don't understand (perhaps someone can clear it up for me):

Player 1: "I have lost the only thing I can do in PvE endgame - farming! Now I'm bored and there's nothing else!"

Player 2: "OK, but you can still farm, you just get less than you did before."

Player 1: "Exactly! Now I gotta farm for 4 hours for what I used to get in 1 hour! It's just stupid!"

Player 2: "Wait a minute, weren't you just complaining about having nothing to do?"

For me its time spend and reward gained, before lootscaling i could spend little time farming, and more time playing, 2 get 8x the reward that i do now in that way it also makes farming fun, beacuse i have 2 spend less time on it, so that when i farm its a change from then normal gameplay, making the game more exciting, in the way, that i can switch from the grind part 2 the fun part, and still get some cool stuff, thats what makes the game enjoyable for me, but after hm/loot scalling, wich was intented 2 give the final blow 2 farming, making it impossible for a casual player 2 earn money for Ex. 15k armor, and enjoying the game at the same time. So now if i wan' a 15k armor it's just grind grind grind with no fun.

arcanemacabre · Jul 14, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willow O Whisper

For me its time spend and reward gained, before lootscaling i could spend little time farming, and more time playing, 2 get 8x the reward that i do now in that way it also makes farming fun, beacuse i have 2 spend less time on it, so that when i farm its a change from then normal gameplay, making the game more exciting, in the way, that i can switch from the grind part 2 the fun part, and still get some cool stuff, thats what makes the game enjoyable for me, but after hm/loot scalling, wich was intented 2 give the final blow 2 farming, making it impossible for a casual player 2 earn money for Ex. 15k armor, and enjoying the game at the same time. So now if i wan' a 15k armor it's just grind grind grind with no fun.

I still don't see any difference between farming then and farming now, except you get less stuff. If you're doing it solely for fun, what does it matter how much you get? Besides, less reward is still some reward. If you're doing it solely for the cash, there are other ways to make money, ways that are much quicker than farming, and there are even ways to farm for a lot of cash, if you know the right spots and are willing to try a little harder.

The point is, you want the way it used to be - minimal effort for lots of wealth (compared to the average player). The point is, you are comparing how much you make now to how much you made then. Always consider this point when making a complaint or concern: If the game was like it is now at release, would you still have played it? Would you complain from the beginning that you aren't getting enough drops soloing? If yes, ask yourself: Would you complain that you weren't getting enough drops no matter how much you were making, period?

drago34 · Jul 14, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I still don't see any difference between farming then and farming now, except you get less stuff. If you're doing it solely for fun, what does it matter how much you get? Besides, less reward is still some reward. If you're doing it solely for the cash, there are other ways to make money, ways that are much quicker than farming, and there are even ways to farm for a lot of cash, if you know the right spots and are willing to try a little harder.

The point is, you want the way it used to be - minimal effort for lots of wealth (compared to the average player). The point is, you are comparing how much you make now to how much you made then. Always consider this point when making a complaint or concern: If the game was like it is now at release, would you still have played it? Would you complain from the beginning that you aren't getting enough drops soloing? If yes, ask yourself: Would you complain that you weren't getting enough drops no matter how much you were making, period?

And to add to your point less money is equal to more since the value of gold has improved a lot.

hallomik · Jul 15, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

First, Gratz to the OP for presenting a position I disagree with in an well argued, civil way.

Second, can the people who don't like HM/Loot scaling please stop saying you're just out to protect the "casual player"? Everyone realizes what you want to protect is "the way I like to play." It's abolutely fine to have that opinion. Really it is. Just spare us the "I'm just looking out for other people" line. It just makes you come across like phony politicians.

assassin rob · Jul 15, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

I always never get bored, most of the time i play with the weekends or i make my own weekends (funny as hell

). This weekend i had the Farm weekend (friday evening : ele) (Saturday : monk) (Today: Ranger).Next weekend it's going to be Vanquishing one or pvp , and so i keep adding this up. (Like Title hunting or w/e) and after a time i make some little papers with the name on, do it in a kind of a hat and pick one out of it.So it's always different and never get bored xD. (if it's a good weekend like SS/LB double things or dragon stuff then i join it and wait for other weekend).

Keithark · Jul 15, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Look back at old posts here, when the game was fun..maybe and I stress MAYBE 1/10th as many upset people. Why? because you now have to grind to attain anything worth having. I only started a year ago and at that time it had been somewhat nerfed (so say my guildies) but I could still get 15k armor and a nice set of weapons for the 3 characters I had. Now I have 9 characters and 4 of them have 15k, I cannot afford it on the rest of them and I have been using all the farming pages on here to try to find a way to make more money but every time something pops up where you can make gold it is nerfed before I get a chance to do it. This is a GAME and should be fun, but to a player with millions of exp, all games beat, protector titles, guardian, cartography, etc what is left? Farming, that is all that is left and now it is worthless to do so I agree with OP that a-net needs to bring back the fun and give us options to make money. A easy one that would not add to the bot problem would be just to GREATLY increase the reward for quests especially those near the end of the games. then it would give us a way to make gold, promote playing in groups instead of solo, and keep the bots from exploiting all at the same time

Willow O Whisper · Jul 15, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by drago34

Eh, whatever. Like I said I don't give a damn if you want to look ignorant. It seems like with each and every post you seem that much more moronic.

Seams 2 me u give a damn, if u don't then please stop talking nonsens and leave my opinions 2 myself k?. As Kane said u don't seam 2 get what lootscaling have done!, Sure it lowered items that is tradet between players, but merchants still got the same prices, so that crap u wrote about gold has a greater value is B*** S*** ! So no lootscaling diden't raise the value of gold.